Sunday, March 16, 2008

Hoagland on Australian TV in 1992

I found this on YouTube a while back and I thought I would link to it here for your viewing pleasure. The interviewer asks Richard some tough questions and he handles them deftly, as always. One of my projects for the future is to make the pilgrimage to Richard's library in Albuquerque and get all of his old videos up on YouTube. Maybe one of these days.

Here's the link.


  1. Dark Mission emphasizes NASA's fixation on Apollo/Orion, Horus/Osiris, the symbology of the three belt stars of Orion, etc.

    Stan Tenen, in his article THE GOD OF ABRAHAM: A Mathematician's View, references this interesting historical background on the ancient concept underlying the god, Apollo:

    This is from Anne Macaulay in Lindesfarne Letter No. 14, p. 109 (emphasis added):

    "And finally let us return to Apollo. It came as a shock to me to find that this god was derived from a geometric figure. This is no deified hero nor an archetypal godlet, but a synthesis of observed facts about the relation of the stars, the moon and sun to earth; it is a timepiece and a calendar; it is a statement of the laws of the heavens in terms of geometrical and mathematical elements which themselves exhibit absolute laws; and these laws also apply to music: this must surely be the music of the spheres. The concept is total and the harmonic nature of the music demonstrates the great harmony of creation. Apollo can thus be seen as the logos or in another sense as the definition of the absolute god."

    Now I can understand why the Free Masons would themselves be fixated on such ancient concepts.

  2. Thanks for posting that. Very useful. So when Hoagland wrote, in 2001, "In a way, perhaps the name itself 'The Face on Mars,' unfairly raised expectations that we would see a friendly, all-American, _symmetrical_ human visage when we finally got a real good look. But we never expected that. And we said so … repeatedly … and for many years."[1]

    ...that was a lie, wasn't it?


  3. "So when Hoagland wrote, in 2001, 'In a way, perhaps the name itself 'The Face on Mars,' unfairly raised expectations that we would see a friendly, all-American, _symmetrical_ human visage when we finally got a real good look. But we never expected that. And we said so … repeatedly … and for many years."

    ...that was a lie, wasn't it?"

    No expat, you blithering idiot, it wasn't a lie.

    First of all, Hoagland didn't write that passage, I did.

    Second, the passage refers to Hoagland's prediction, first made at the UN, that the Face would turn out to have a human half and a feline half, a popsition he came to based on new research.

    You just never get tired of coming in here and revealing the depths of your idiocy, do you?

  4. He's talking about the base (which IS symmetrical), and overall symmetry (see the Mars Express anaylsis), you moron.

    Have you ever actually read anything we've ever printed, or do you just reflexively attack everything we post?

    Nevermind, I know the answer.

  5. Is interesting to see how most every public Internet venue that discusses Dark Mission and any subject matter pertaining to artifacts on the moon or Mars are haunted by pathological nut cases that have made it their mission in life to obfuscate by any means possible the ostensible subject matter of discussion.

    These cranks are immediately recognizable for the tools they are, as they always fixate on various angles of character attacks and/or fixation on derivative minutia. They never really attempt to take on the meat of any of these subject matters - and the lame attempts of when they do stray into such, amounts to resurrecting long since discredited lines of critique.

    They never really dare to get themselves bogged down on debates of substance as they don't want to see the full context of evidence brought out. So their lines of attack are always very narrowly focused - and disingenuous to any onlookers as they omit mountains or relevant context.

    One suspects there's a hand book on how to employ these tactics, as they show up from different folks posting from different IP addresses in different venues associated with these topics, yet their lines of assault are all very similar and they parrot some of the same accusations from the same sources.

    After following this matter for 15 years, I will say that Dark Mission has resulted in a peak in the frenzy of their efforts.

    Too bad for the folks that are going to end up on the wrong side of history when this is all over - but the stooges have certainly earned their ignominy.

  6. The use of the word "lie" seems a bit childish to me. That implies someone is deliberately giving out false information. Speculation on the symmetry/non symmetry of the face on mars (if later found out to be correct or incorrect) would be considered an inaccurate prediction, not a lie. I think most people can see the difference. I just finished "Dark Mission" a few days ago. I'm not sure what to think of it. I don't think we ever will until we get high-res close ups of these objects, and if they are artificial, I don't expect to see them in my lifetime.

  7. Wow, an actual measured and thoughtful response.


  8. There's something seriously amiss here. It's as plain as a pikestaff that Richard Hoagland, on the Australian TV video, stated that the "face" is symmetrical. Now here we have Hoagland's co-author Mike Bara not only denying this absolutely incontrovertible fact, but haranguing the person who first mentioned it, calling him a "moron" and a "blithering idiot". If this is a fair indication of Bara's respect for the truth, it calls into question everything in this strange book.

  9. Yes "never" as in "we never expected ONCE WE GOT NEW PICTURES that they would show the Face to be a symmetrical human visage."

    The idea that there is anything deceptive, or even inconsistent in these statements is purely in the heads of some people who have deep emotional problems.

    And again, the image in question, the 2001 MGS image, has since been found to be improperly ortho-rectified, greatly enhancing the asymmetry of the Face.

    As the Mars Express article on shows, we now know that the Face is significantly more symmetrical than any of the MGS or even the MRO image show.

    But it is still feline on one side, human on the other.

  10. OK, I get it, thanks for the clarification. So presumably what Hoagland really said in 1992 was not "it's symmetrical" but "it looks symmetrical but I don't actually think it is symmetrical". Those perfidious Ozzies edited him to make him appear to say something that is not correct.

    Now, I hope when you speak of "people who have deep emotional problems" you aren't referring to me. That would be a wholly unjustified ad hominem slur, quite unacceptable from a person who purports to be engaged in scientific inquiry.

  11. I think the problem is a lot of people are new on the scene. I am 28 now, and I started listening to Art bell when I was about 16(or younger, it seems so long ago now). The whole MGS mission was a journey I still remember. Its almost as if people think if anything changes something shady is going on. I saw the lecture Hoagland gave at nasa lewis where he presented the case the face was hominid, of course that was based on the viking images. The whole "feline" connection came later with newer pictures AND I would predict it would even change more if we had MORE evidence. We don't even need RCH or Mike to talk about symmetry or non symmetry. There are some things we can look at and decide on our own/ I believe the face can be looked at as being symmetrical or asymmetrical. I'd wager even calling it feline, human, etc, is a matter of some opinion. However, I can see how a symmetrical face would give more evidence of "being artificial" to someone who is casually observing an object. People have the right to question things but I must admit I have read some of expat's post and chuckled a little, but not because he is funny, but because he doesn't know he is. If the face is half and half as RCH (and mike?) is claiming, I can see how the concept of symmetry might be confusing. Lets assume this structure was created by artists/craftsman/engineers we have to take that artistic license into consideration as well as any functionality the face may have that we are unaware of. What I am trying to say is there is more that we don't know about the whole Giza plateau than we do know. Also, the face looks like it has some damage so that might cause more unintended asymmetry? The cliff side of the face is interesting!

  12. I forgot I wanted to add I am donating my book to the library. I think its a good idea for people to do who have the book.

  13. That's awesome! Of course, I'd rather the libraries bought the book... :)

  14. > No, he changed his opinion...

    So now this discussion has come full circle and we're back to my original proposition. What you wrote in 2001 was not accurate.

  15. What I wrote is 100% accurate. And only a nit-picking, obsessed lunatic would argue otherwise.

  16. Libraries are always struggling with underfunded book budgets. I work for the San Diego Public Library, and there are lots of things we'd love to have on our shelves, but there are simply not enough dollars in the kitty to purchase them. This is why I bought 2 copies of the book-- one was for me, and one went immediately to a branch library in the system where I know that the readership has an interest in the kinds of things that are discussed in 'Dark Mission'.

    Also, many libraries provide their patrons with donation receipts for items given to them (especially brand new items), so folks can take a tax deduction for what they give. It's a kind of 'something for everyone' situation: the library gets books that it can use, the patrons get the books they'd like to read, and the donor gets a tax break.

    As far as the dreary, recycled nit-picking goes, the last time I checked Webster's, both theories and hypotheses may be revised any time that more/better data becomes available. So far, all I have heard Mr. Hoagland and Mr. Bara talk about are their theories and hypotheses about what has happened/is happening, and they update or change their conjectures as more information becomes available. Having one idea about the Face on Mars (or anything else for that matter) and then modifying it or exchanging it for another is not 'lying'. It is simply 'revising a working hypothesis'. Elementary school children working on science fair projects learn all about 'revising hypotheses', and even they would not make the mistake of labeling a discarded or later-rejected theory a 'lie'.

  17. > Having one idea about the Face on Mars ... and then modifying it or exchanging it for another is not 'lying'.

    Of course not. The lie comes in writing "I never believed [the former idea]".

  18. We never wrote "I never believed..."

    As your own posts demonstrate.

  19. Facial symmetry may be summed up as:

    Two eyes, a nose, and a mouth.

    That we have.

    So, one side is the Man, and the other,
    the Cat.

    Hey, I'm a cat person!


    < o||
    (= o-)
    < o||

    P.S.: I'm still waiting to find out about
    those cute little fuzzies running around
    up there right now! (Those "Green Pets!")

    Oh---and that same video has a shot of what
    I would SWEAR is a black-furred domestic
    shorthair Tabby cat looking at something
    under a ledge. (But, of course, maybe that's
    just a photo the video producer slipped in
    for laughs. Who knows?)

    But the possibility...of Cats on Mars?????

    I LOVE IT!!!!! :-))

  20. Come on, Mike -- admit you edit your blog to make yourself look cool... by dodging the hard questions and inconvenient facts.

  21. Actually Jim, I live on Redondo Beach, California, I drive a 2007 BMW 5 Series, I’m a New York Times bestselling author, and I hang out with strippers and porn starlets half my age. I really don’t need to “edit” this blog to make myself look cool.
    But I do moderate it, so buffoons like you can’t waste everyone’s time by asking the same questions over and over again and bogging the whole thing down.


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