Monday, May 5, 2008

The Egyptian History Discussion

Okay guys, rather than have you keep going back and forth in the Shatner post, I'll set you up with your own topic on all this Hathor and ancient Egypt stuff.

Carry on...


  1. Why is it that wherever you find ancient
    pyramids, you find sand? Do these guys simply
    have a thing for sand? Or is there something
    of geological interest going on here?

    I mean, the pyramids are built from blocks
    of stone usually found in sandy areas.

    Are we all missing something here?

    What is it about "pyramids" and "sand"?

    Even The Luxor was built in Las Vegas,
    surrounded by---you guessed it---sand.

    Okay, so I'm being just a little facetious
    with the Vegas reference...but still....

    Any ideas?


    P.S.: I'd *still" like to take Hathor to the
    Lost in the Fifties dance. Tied-up plaid
    blouse, tight jeans, bobbysox, saddle shoes...
    MAN she'd be hot....

    Even Cats-Eye glasses would look good on HER!


    ...and with all those Jaf'fa clunking back and
    forth in their Serpent Guard armor, doing
    The Stroll....


  2. I don't know about the whole sand observation, but I've stayed at the Luxor dozens of times and last time I was there, I noticed something I'd not noticed before. On the wall by the elevator shafts (or "inclinators" as the hotel calls them) was a big plaque with hotel address on it: 3900 Las Vegas Blvd.

    I found it pretty amusing that the pyramid is located on a lot that is a "decimal harmonic" of 19.5 (19.5 x 2).

    Do architects really plan this kind of stuff? I assume so.

  3. Here's another one. According to this wikipedia entry, the inclinators run up and down at an angle of 39 degrees. Coincidence? I think not.

  4. You're still missing the point. We don't live in a culture where a society lives its symbols and myth anymore. You're saying the pyramids at the Gizah Plateau are too sophisticated to be tainted with mere symbolic meaning. It sounds to me like Bauval has a better grasp of not only Egyptian religion, but also world mythology. The Gizah Plateau IS a product of their complex religion. Why you are trying to seprate them is something I am having trouble figuring out. You're making fun of priests with artificial penises, and then recognizing that as a part of their creation myth Orion has an artificial penis. Ancient religions THE WORLD over act out creation myths. That is just one part of the Gizah Plateau. There was no separation of church and state, even math and science would have been sacred. The pyramids have many functions that are coded into it, but its all encompassed within their dominant culture(we call other peoples religions "myth" as Joseph Campbell said.)

    "If one looks at the grandure of the pyramids on the gizah plateau, the technological and architectural complexity and scale....yes then it is an insult not only to the builders and architect's but also to mankind's intellect to state like Bauval, that it was build for earlier states reasons i.e. symbolic doodling by priest's with an artificial penis.

  5. Hey Mike,

    If I had to guess...

    the Buffet was $19.50!

    Either that, or $39.00!


    P.S.: I wonder if they have budget rooms for $78 a night? ;-)

  6. You know, I'm not sure how much the buffet was...

  7. Yes, I also want to look into the pyramid in Long Beach at the college there. I forget the name but you can see it from the 405.

  8. Oh...and as an inspiring thought for the weekend....Mars, in many known cultures deeply imbedded in history and associated with death, destruction, war and even fertility...comes eerelie close as to the why and how these associations may have come about in relation to the ancient Egyptian account on „the destruction of mankind“ wherein Ra, Hathor and Sekhet are the key players

  9. Yeah, Zahi doesn't let anybody drill unless he already knows what they're going to find.

  10. With all do respect to Adrian, and I won't put his name in quotes, he seems 'stuck on penis.' A proper understanding would allow someone to look past it to its transcendental source.

  11. Wake Up!

    Did you ever think that the Egyptian's texts are just a modified/ripped off version of the people/history that came before them.

    The Snake likes his Tail/Tale. ;-)

  12. A good book to read with regard to very archaic Egyptian technology is 'The Giza Power Plant' by Christopher Dunn. Like Wm. Flinders Petrie before him, Dunn was sucked into a study of the Great Pyramid because he noticed obvious machining marks/saw cuts on stone blocks in and around the pyramid itself. He also knew the significance of the ancient, drilled-by-trepanning pink Aswan granite cores (which taper with depth!) on display at the Cairo Museum. The presence of these cores alone puts paid to the idea that the Egyptians did everything with copper chisels and dolorite pounders.

    When one looks at the Great Pyramid from Dunn's point of view, then things like the 'Dendera light-bulb' bas-reliefs are not far-fetched in the slightest. (Just Google 'dendera light bulb' as an image search for the pertinent pix.)

    Egyptologists are quick to denounce and heap scorn on any ancient-tech-oriented explanation of the Dendera murals, but they are also eerily silent when it comes to possible alternative meanings for the pictures. This is probably because a more prosaic (?) explanation of 'mythic, lotus-borne serpent-eggs' or 'cobra-infested-eggplants' would sound fatuous in the extreme...



  13. You could read an entire library of information on Egypt, and paradoxically, they *could* all be true. You could look at it from so many different angles. An interesting point meangreen made is that we dont really know everything about the Egyptian history. I would wager that cultures did rise up around it as some carryover from an older civilization. When I see the Pyramid, I see a symbol of transformation, a world mountain, a central tree, an axis mundi, uniting worlds. I think Richard Hogland is always fond of using the blind people trying to explain an elephant analogy. Everyone sees their own part, and it *could* all be valid in their own right. So, when you look at this advanced civilization that was capable of creating this, you can put your mind in two worlds. The Giza Plateau touches the cosmic order, and its also a structure built by man. But, like t'zaris said, it looks like some archeologists dont want to recognize that they were more advanced, and much has to be explained by nuts and bolts science, that is their advanced knowledge of science.

  14. Can anyone make a correlation between Egyptian lore and the pentagonal object in cydonia (aka the D&M pyramid)?

    What lore points t'words Mars?


  15. The ridges of the D & M pyramid have always looked to me like the hieroglyph for 'sbA', meaning both 'star' and 'door'. All the so-called 'gates' of the Pyramid Texts are written with the sbA hieroglyph, so they are probably more correctly translated as 'doors' rather than 'gates'. (The word for 'gate' is 'rw'.)

    Before everyone starts going into fits about 'stargates', it is important to understand that in hieroglyphic writing there were pictorial determinants attached to words that sounded alike, so as to clarify which word was meant. The Egyptians took pains to clarify which meaning of 'sbA' they were talking about, because although the two words were written the same, they meant quite different things to the Egyptians themselves.

    A good discussion of the symbolism of the number five in ancient Egyptian thought can be found in Moustafa Gadalla's book 'Egyptian Rhythm: The Heavenly Melodies'.



  16. I find the D&M to be a astrological chart - and I feel that I still havnt had my question answered.

    What lore leads from the pryrimds of earth to teh prymids on mars?

    Is there any lore to a five sided prymid?
    PS: Im a horrible mispeller


  17. I cant think of an analogue of the D&M pyramid on earth. Maybe someone else knows?

  18. We talk about the D&M as a pentatope, a five-sided pyramid existing in more than 3 dimensions, in chapter 3, I believe.

    And there's always MS Word...

  19. The thing about the D & M Pyramid and the sbA hieroglyph is that the five arms of the sbA-glyph pretty much match the angles of the five ridges of the pyramid/pentatope.

    I have always wondered why the Egyptians chose a 5-limbed symbol as the representation of a star, when just about everybody else used some variation of a 'cross-hair x' to do the same thing. Of late, modern archaeologists posit that the hieroglyph was based on a starfish, but given the Egyptian penchant for detail in their art, one never sees starfish routinely depicted, as one would expect if the shape of the creature was of sacred significance. That the arms of the sbA hieroglyph are all angled (as if to fit neatly inside a pentagon) seems to me to be more a function of Egyptian mathematical/geometrical knowledge than symbolically rendered sea-life.

    Egyptian artists also always took great pains to angle all 5 arms of of the sbA-glyph: one never finds them using the short-cut of drawing a single horizontal line for the right and left arms. This would seem to indicate that the angling of all 5 arms was important in and of itself.

    Then there is Plutarch writing about the numerical significance of the Egyptian triad of Auset, Ausar and Heru in 'Moralia (Vol 5)':

    "Three (Osiris) is the first perfect odd number: four is a square whose side is the even number two (Isis); but five (Horus) is in some ways like to its father, and in some ways like to its mother, being made up of three and two. And 'panta' [all] is a derivative of 'pente' [five], and they [the Egyptians] speak of counting as 'numbering by fives'."

    Please remember that the best and brightest of Greece all studied in Egypt, including Pythagoras. The Pythagorean philosophical/mathematical school also used a pentacle as their symbol, which is how it became associated with other schools of esoteric knowledge, the members of which, like the Pythagoreans, held many of their teachings secret in imitation of the Egyptians from whom they learned their mathematics.

    Sword, I assumed you would know that the Egyptians had a pentagonal star-symbol as well as the mathematical interest/significance of same. If you are not up to tackling Plutarch and Pythagoras, you can get a good overview of 'Egyptian maths' by reading 'Egyptian Harmony: the Visual Music' by Moustafa Gadalla.



  20. So we can say that both the D&M and the symbolism in Egypt is aligned the same way - meaning the D&M is aligned to the mars equator and the five pointed star after mentioned in hieroglyphs would be aligned to the "bottom" level line of the hieroglyph?

    Understand what I am trying to get at?


  21. No, Sword, I am sorry, but I do not know what you are getting at. Your last post is not very clear from a grammatical point of view, so I am having a hard time figuring out what you are trying to say.

    I seem to get a general idea that you are trying to make a point about the orientation of the D & M Pyramid, but I don't know how to respond, because beyond that, I can't tell what exactly you are talking about.



  22. I don't know of any.

    This is one of the issues I have with critics of Cydonia. Those that say the D&M is natural never produce a terrestrial comparison with a known natural formation. At least, I've never seen one.

    And the best they can do on the Face is Middle Butte Mesa.


  23. yeas t'zairis....filmquotes really do make a good reference to "formulate" a point and to counter-argument scientific work from the past and present. Bravo!

    and yes...Zahi Hawass sounds almost like Zahi Half-ass and his incompetent blabbering

  24. Ok everybody, let's keep it civil. We can have disagreements without attacking each other.

  25. It looks to me that the side slope of the Walter Pyramid (California State University Long Beach) is approximately 48 degrees, whereas the side slope of the Great Pyramid at Giza is approximately 51 degrees.
    (The side slope on the Walter Pyramid above is based on my calculation, which could be wrong.)
    But 48 degrees is close enough to 51 degrees for the casual observer.


  26. Hi T'Zairis,

    I had occaision to notice something one time
    many years ago when some PBS television
    series or other was showing some Egyptian
    heiroglyphs in a close-up shot:

    As they panned along the sequence of
    symbols, I noticed that the guys with the
    fancy robes, headdresses and "big eyes"
    were quite a bit larger than the smaller
    people at the back of the procession
    (or whatever).

    It was almost as if the larger beings were
    giants, and the "humans" (with normal sized
    eyes and all) were kneeling at the back of
    the group.

    This in turn suggested to me that the
    Egyptian royalty were not human.

    Annunaki? (*Martians?!?*)

    There is a UFO Mysteries DVD narrated by
    Roger Moore that shows the KGB taking away
    a giant mummy from what was known to locals
    as "The Tomb Of The Visitor." The remains
    were analyzed at a lab in Moscow, and a
    computer recreation of the face of The
    Visitor was presented---

    Our tall, large-eyed friends, apparently....

    It is said that the Great Pyramid of Khufu
    was built in forty years. According to one
    analyst, that means that a stone was placed
    (with extreme precision, moreover) roughly
    every 3.5 minutes around the clock for that
    entire forty years.

    Some written accounts say that the stones
    "flew through the air" as the Annunaki
    followed them, chanting something.

    One wonders....

    Sounds like Space Dudes to *me*!


    Me an' the Lost in the Fifties

  27. marsandro

    if one follows orthodox is more like around the figure of 20 years...Khufu did not reign that long.

    Stretches the orthodox story of construction and building "the damn thing" even more :-)not to mention logistic's of such an undertaking

    and from an engineering point of view this is and remains the ticking timebomb for orthodox egyptology.

    It simply can not be done the way they (mainstream archeologist's) keep on chanting how the ancient egyptians must have done it.

    And they (mainstream archeologist's) call people like West and Schoch and all others who try and shed some light on the mystery pyramidiots. What a world we live in

  28. Hi Adrian,

    More likely the name "Khufu" was just sort of
    "stuck on" after the fact. It's kind of like the
    idea that the ancient Egyptians "built the
    pyramids," when all of the available accounts
    would seem to indicate that they *found* the
    pyramids already there.

    As to the forty years' construction, that
    supposedly is the time required to build it,
    which is remarkable in any event.

    As to the name ascribed to the pyramid, or
    the length of the reign of any "Pharaoh" of
    that name, there may in fact be no actual
    correlation between the two. But who knows
    for sure?

    You're absolutely right about the "true"
    scholars of pyramid research.

    Oh---and how about that fellow here recently
    who discovered that several "sand dunes" in
    the vicinity were in fact long-buried pyramids,
    which taken together form a representation of
    the constellation Orion, as seen from above?
    In which the pyramids of Khufu, Sephren(sp?),
    etc., are the "belt" stars?

    It all sounds very "Hoagland" if you ask me.
    Shades of Cydonia.

    I can't wait to see what these guys find next.


    Hathor -- The Red-Headed MOOSE of the Go'a'uld...seriously hot....

  29. Marsandro-- My main perplexity with ancient Egypt is that there are chunks of stuff in the archaeological record that don't fit the standard 'Primitive/Predynastic civilization slowly and steadily evolves into pyramid-building Dynastic Egypt' model. Machining marks on pyramid-blocks are one, and high-quality concrete cast-in-place pyramid-blocks (which can still be cut with saws, just like we cut concrete today, so concrete pyramid-stones do not obviate Chris Dunn's 'power plant' hypothesis) are another.

    Then there's the art-- Predynastic stuff looks a lot like proto-Sumerian/Assyrian art: they even used a serekh-derived box and not a shen-rope cartouche for Pharaohs' names, and they used the crennellated, serekh-style wall on their tomb-compounds, etc. There is some foreshadowing of standard Egyptian-style body-representation convention in Predynastic pieces, and Narmer and Scorpion wear the conical-with-knobbed-peak White Crown. Then, there is a kind of 'artistic hiccup' and all of a sudden, one sees the menes-cloth headdress, the Blue Crown, carefully rendered and elaborate wigs, and standard-Egyptian body stylization.

    While there are stylistic differences between Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom and Late Kingdom Egyptian art (changes in wig styles, clothing and so on), everything is still basically recognizable as 'standard Egyptian', even the moment of artistic eccentricity that was Akhenaten's Amarna. The next time that one sees as big a 'hiccup' in the art record is when the Ptolemies take over, and Greco-Roman stuff starts to collapse the standard Egyptian aesthetic-- you get things like Roman-style portraits (complete with laurel-crowns) attached to old-Egyptian-looking sarcophagi, and Greek-style statues tricked out in menes and linen kilt-and-apron, (which look utterly ridiculous, by the bye).

    Just by looking at the artistic record, it is very apparent that there was a major upheaval of Egyptian culture at this period of time, and I would be willing to bet a week's-worth of temple food-offerings (because the Egyptians never used money throughout their long history) that the 'artistic jolt' between Predynastic and Dynastic Egypt indicates a similar influx of ideas. The obvious question is, from where? If it was always 'just the Egyptians', why is there such a major stylistic boundary between Narmer's and Scorpion's Egypt and that of the early Dynastic Pharaohs?

    Then there are also problems with dating the Sphinx and the Pyramids at Giza, and some researchers have floated arguments that Dynastic Egypt may have simply inherited the Giza Pyramids from an earlier epoch, and experimented with them around Unas' time as possible burial-mound models (because they had forgotten what the originals were for, or had lost the skill to make the Giza Power Plant operational).

    Even acknowledging that the Dynastic Egyptian civilization alone lasted long enough (4,000 years) for them to forget/reinvent their deities and history several times over (and there is both artistic and written evidence that attests to cultural permutation even in Ma'At-loving Egypt), there is something about it that is just plain odd, and the Giza Pyramids embody that oddness.

    As far as 'Visitors' go, Egypt is not the only culture that 'acknowledged' them. Native Americans do, too. They call them 'Sky-people', 'Star-people' or the 'Star Nations'.



  30. Okay, so do you have the reference for that line of scripture?

  31. Okay...I did a KJV search, and the only
    thing that came up was Isaiah 19:19, for
    which the wording was not as I remembered it.

    Might be another Scripture, and I just don't
    recall the exact wording (so that will tend to
    scuttle the search).

    I'm using


    which aren't too forgiving if even one word
    is off.

    Unfortunately, my study references are
    sitting boxed up in a warehouse, or I'd be
    pulling them down and checking this through
    Young's, Strong's and several other good

    Anyway, there's Is. 19:19 for starters.


    Hathor -- With a Ta'Ri makeover


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